506th IR Realism Unit
Open Forum => Public Discussion => Topic started by: Greybeard on April 10, 2015, 07:49:29 AM
-
Hey guys, I was wondering if you had ever thought about adding a organic recon section to each line platoon. I have noticed that on several missions a recon element would be very useful for priority information requirements like identifying avenues of approach, targeted areas of interest, enemy strength, location and capabilities etc etc. Even a 2 man section per platoon would be able to be sent off on a recon patrol at the very beginning of a mission while the Opord was being issued to the troops and upon their return (even just 15 minutes would be enough) any Fragos could be issued.
-
At present, Brawler acts as our recon element as they are often the first units to reach the active AO. Often they will relay any important information that will impact our plans. There is no real need for a reconnaissance element.
-
Personally for me I don't think we need it. Here's why. I spent 4 months on the ground as a weapons squad leader here in the 506th. During that time Brawler did a pretty good job at seeing or finding the enemy's front lines almost every op. Also I personally rather enjoyed having only half an idea of what was going on in the AO and discovering and adapting to the rest as we went along. If you already know about everything in an AO, kinda takes half the fun out of it.
Also keep in mind I spent nearly 15 months as a recon man the 15thMEU gaming unit, where most of us came from, and I took said knowledge set into consideration for this reply.
-
To expound on what the other gentlemen have said, the reason Brawler tends to fill a reconnaissance role is not by design; we just have to leave early to get to the AO at the same time, since Bradleys move considerably slower than Blackhawks. This usually results in us getting to the area before the infantry do, finding some high ground, and getting a good look at the landing zone and surrounding area, a few minutes in advance of the main force's arrival
-
I take it that this unit only plays against AI. In that case you can definitely afford not to have a dedicated recon team. It also does make it more interesting not to have a clear picture of the situation. I just thought that the skills of a recon team could also be used by regular riflemen. Thanks for the timely responses...
-
Very basic forms of recon are used by the platoon, squads and teams. It was regular practice to get good eyes on the AO and check it out for a minute before making last minute adjustments. Also even during the middle of the op, sometimes a team is pushed up 50-100m to have a peek and then they come back.
-
I like to speak very straight forward in my replies. The Command Staff of the 506th is also very cautious about creating any kind of unit that can be seen as "special forces". In our experience having these kinds of special snow-flake units inside a larger infantry-centric unit only breeds dissent and unwarranted feelings of superiority / inferiority. None of which is actually appropriate in a cooperative gaming unit.
-
Brawler is not a recon unit.
-
I was going to say...I never heard of a mechanized unit conducting regular recon for a light infantry unit...lol
-
Brawler is not a recon unit.
No one said it was, we said it ends up performing those roles due to the the nature of the way they operate. For example, being in front of everyone else in the unit.
-
Brawler is not a recon unit.
No one said it was, we said it ends up performing those roles due to the the nature of the way they operate. For example, being in front of everyone else in the unit.
Believe me, Brawler is happy to fulfill a role in forward observation but the way we do recon isn't exactly what I would call proactive. We find a place to conceal our not exactly small vehicle and only engage enemy if forced into the situation. The few times when we've been in advance of the rest of the unit, backup is a loooooong way away. When in those situations, we rely greatly on our air assets to cover our butts.
-
Brawler is not a recon unit.
No one said it was, we said it ends up performing those roles due to the the nature of the way they operate. For example, being in front of everyone else in the unit.
Believe me, Brawler is happy to fulfill a role in forward observation but the way we do recon isn't exactly what I would call proactive. We find a place to conceal our not exactly small vehicle and only engage enemy if forced into the situation. The few times when we've been in advance of the rest of the unit, backup is a loooooong way away. When in those situations, we rely greatly on our air assets to cover our butts.
In every operation I have been in so far, Brawler has pushed to the front of every task force before any other asset, naturally whether you want to or not you are still conducting recon during that time. Proactive or not, unless you walk around with your eyes closed, you are doing it.
Just because the word "recon" is used, doesn't mean I am suggesting it is your primary role. My primary role is not recon yet I still sit up there pointing out things that I see long before anyone else does. Using the word recon doesn't not imply any form of special forces or otherwise, it is simply a term used for gathering information essentially.
-
I'll end this on the Brawler information.
We have no unit dedicated for Reconnaissance, or any super secret squirrel delta force ranger seal space ship door gunner section here, and we wont.
Brawler by its trade of being "Big and Slow" has to depart NORMALLY, but not always, before the rest of the Task force. IF they are flying, if they are driving in MRAPS, we leave at the same time. But an Blackhawk can cover 10KM's faster than an Bradley can. Its just the nature of the beast. While leaving early, we typically get to the Area of Operations, the average for my Bradley, is about 5 minutes before the rest of the task force. This allows us the advantage to "Recon" the LZ the task force Commander picked, so they don't land on top of Anti Air, or the enemies motor pool. We typically do this from 2-3KM away from the LZ using our high power thermals. Once they land, we play catch up and join the task force. Then operate side by side the rest of the Operation.
-
Don't forget that the Apatche acts in the recon role from time to time.
-
Brawler are Shock troopers. Useful in oh so many ways...
Apaches are reconnaissance among other things.
On the other hand, M2 Bradleys exist in the Cavalry Squadron of any Brigade and are task organized to maneuver BNs or act as a single cohesive unit. However, the Cav Sqdn can dump the Bradleys for medium lift capable HMMWVs to provide light wheeled cavalry on an objective area (Air mobile by Blackhawk or CH-47).
Brawler is Cavalry. Heavy Cavalry when mounted on M2s.
From wikipedia
"In many modern armies, the term cavalry is still often used to refer to units that are a combat arm of the armed forces which in the past filled the traditional horse-borne land combat light cavalry roles. These include scouting, skirmishing with enemy reconnaissance elements to deny them knowledge of own disposition of troops, forward security, offensive reconnaissance by combat, defensive screening of friendly forces during retrograde movement, retreat, restoration of command and control, deception, battle handover and passage of lines, relief in place, linkup, breakout operations, and raiding. The shock role, traditionally filled by heavy cavalry, is generally filled by units with the "armored" designation."
-
If i may i'll contribute to erase a very common misconception about Brawler.
I was a Senior Corporal (Enlisted rank between your E4 and E5) for the PO Army/Cavalry, 4th Cavalry Regiment (Mecklenburgh) Recon Squadron. This is fact not a boast so that for the sake of argument what i'm about to contribute and hope to correct is based on actual hands on experience for 7 years of my 10 year military career. While the SOP for the US and my own country could be said to have diferences they are very small since i was a crewmen in a M60A3TTS and the organization and training is based on the US model, so, when i say that Brawler is NOT Cavalry but mechanized infantry i hope to correct that. (If the name didnt already gave that away...)
In several Armies Mechanized Infantry fullfill recon missions for themselfs or for a greater force so Brawler being used for it is not something of another world, a 11B can fullfill the mission of reconnaisance if needed in the real world. Is there mechanized/armor reconnaisance units? Yes, the US Cavalry even has a speciality called Cavalry Scout (19D) which i was crossed trained for in my own army due to the particularity of the Squadron i was a part of. What is the main goal of the Cavalry Scout? To put it in a very simplified way is to go where armor cannot and be the eyes and ears. And that mission is already fullfilled with extreme eficiency by Brawler 1-1 and 1-2.
Would i love to see a Cavalry section with M1A2's and Bradley's? I'm a Cavalrymen of course i would! I love what i did. But i was explained quite clearly when i joined what this unit is about and i agree 100%, Air Assault, when i joined i had no mistake of what was this unit's mission and for my part i will help fullfill that vision in anything i can, what has been built gamewise is fun and works very well to my honest opinion. Brawler is a top notch group of people who i have good fun and i would'nt trade this group for nothing right now.
But we cannot mistake Brawler for what it is, Mechanized Infantry. Our mission is very diferent from what a Cavalry unit would be asked to acomplish.
I hope this helped.
-
The 506th IR is roughly based on the 4th IBCT, 101st Airborne DIV. Your BNs in the 506th consisted (past tense) of light infantry, field artillery, support, special troops, and cavalry. There are no Mech Inf Companies in the 506th. Now, don't get me wrong, there are lots of units in the US Army that fulfill a Mechanized Infantry role. The 506th was not one of them. They were light Cavalry who borrowed M2s (when required) because their MTOE is too small to operate as a light infantry BN without the increased firepower. The 506th did not have wreckers, fuel haulers, and mechanics to support a true Mechanized role. Armor and Mechanized Forces have super long support trains that trail behind them and keep them moving. Light Infantry (or Air Assault) does not as they are air mobile.
In its current state, 506th operates as an Air mobile Task Force reinforced with a platoon of on-loan Bradleys reinforcing its light Cavalry. This is the preferred play style. And Brawler makes for good video! I would not be surprised if Brawler were given some light HMMWVs mixed with TOW HMMWVs for a mission and watch the CH-47s ferry them in after the Infantry Air Assault has secured the LZ and reduced enemy in the area. One of the greatest Air Assault fights is infiltrating and securing an Air Assault beachhead with no hope of overland reinforcement and letting the blood, sweat, and tears prove your mettle.
Anyways, my last $.02 for this beaten horse.